Crozier Cumberland

CUMBERLAND-L Archives

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
Apr 2002

From: “Sarah Reveley” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:40:50 -0500
References: <[email protected]>
Maybe you could find one at:

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Clans/Crozier.html

In loving memory of Emma Crozier
of Montrose Way, Dunblane
Who died Wednesday, 13 March 1996
With fifteen of her classmates and her teacher
Class of Dunblane Primary, Dunblane, Scotland

The Croziers came over from Normandy in 1066 with William the Conqueror.
Through the years, some moved northward to the southern areas of Scotland
where they became established as a Border Clan.

According to Scots Kith and Kin, Clan Crozier was in Liddesdale in the 14th
Century.
It is a sept of Clan Armstrong.
Those with Nova Scotia Connections use the spelling “Crozier”.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Thanks, one and all for your input. Anybody out there actually know any
Crosiers/Croziers/Crozers?

From: “Tom Rennebaum” <[email protected]>
Subject: [CUL] Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER from Longtown, Arthuret Parish
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:19:28 -0600
Hi List,
It’s time to start tackling my CROSIER (+ alternative spellings) ancestors.
My 2x Great Grandmother was ELIZABETH CROZER (spelled this version on
marriage listing in IGI), born c1812 Arthuret Parish. Elizabeth married
EDWARD TURNBULL 22 Mar 1833 Arthuret Parish.

I haven’t found a listing for Elizabeth’s baptism in the IGI under any of
the above spellings. However, I believe her parents are DANIEL and JANE
CROSIER. My source for this is the 1851 Census for Longtown where WILLIAM
TURNBULL (eldest child of Edward & Elizabeth) is living with his
grandparents: the above mentioned Crosiers. Daniel is listed as a Handloom
Weaver.

Taking things back further, there is a listing in the IGI for the marriage
of DANIEL CROSIER and JANE JOHNSTON on 14 Feb 1812 at Arthuret Parish, and
that there are other listings on the IGI for Daniel Crosier from both
Arthuret and from Lanercost.

Anyone out there researching this surname, particularly from the Longtown
area?

Regards,
Tom Rennebaum
Boise, Idaho
From: [email protected]
Subject: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:08:36 EDT

Hi Tom,

I too am interested in the CROZIER/CROZER surname, as I have an ancestor who
married a Margaret CROZIER in Carlisle in 1757. I suspect she was born as
Margaret CROSER in that area in 1723 to Robert CROSER and Elizabeth RAILTON,
but I have little other information.

Steve Sunderland

From: “Tom Rennebaum” <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:02:06 -0600
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the information. I will keep it in a folder in case I find out
more about this surname. Surely, there are more of us interested in this
name.

While going through the archives for this list I came across a Jacqueline
Chisick who is researching this name, particularly around Wigton. Have you
had any contact with her? I tried, but my email bounced; assume she has
changed her email address and may not even be subscribing to this list any
more.

Of possible interest to you is another Crozier researcher who has ties to
Carlisle that I came across in the archives. Have you had contact with “Ian”
<[email protected]>? Again, don’t know if this email address is current.

Regards,
Tom

—–Original Message—–
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Hi Tom,

I too am interested in the CROZIER/CROZER surname, as I have an ancestor
who
married a Margaret CROZIER in Carlisle in 1757. I suspect she was born as
Margaret CROSER in that area in 1723 to Robert CROSER and Elizabeth RAILTON,
but I have little other information.

Steve Sunderland
From: “J A Olsen” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:23:04 +0000
just curious and have no family members with this name but I have often
wondered about its origins.

Does it suggest that the family are descended from (celibate ha ha) medieval
clergy or is it something else entirely?

Judy
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:11:07 -0500
References: <[email protected]>
Well, the Most High and Majestic Google Empress (Mandy said it, not me) couldn’t let that one pass by.

The origin of the pastoral staff is at times associated with the shepherd’s crook. Whether the usage was borrowed from this source is doubtful. Some writers trace
an affinity with the lituus, or rod used by the Roman augurs in their divinations, while others again ace in the crosier an adaptation of the ordinary walking-sticks
which were used for support on journeys and in churches before the introduction of seats.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04515c.htm

Middle English croser, from Old French crossier, staff bearer (influenced by croisier, one who bears a cross), from crosse, crosier, of Germanic origin.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/7/C0760700.html.
Crook, Crooke, Crooker, Crookes, Crooks, Crookshank, Crookshanks, Cropper, Crosar, Crosbie, Crosby, Crosdale, Croser, Crosier, Crosland, Crosley, Cross,
Crossan, Crossbowmaker, Crossby, Crossdale, Crosse, Crosser, Crossfield, Crosskell, Crossland, Crossley, Crossman, Crossthwaite, Crosswell, Crosswhite,
Crosthwaite, Croston, Croswell, Crosweller
http://www.rootsinscotland.com/page22.html

Glad I don’t have to trace that family!!!
Gdday,
Sarah

From: “Sarah Reveley” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:11:07 -0500
References: <[email protected]>
Well, the Most High and Majestic Google Empress (Mandy said it, not me) couldn’t let that one pass by.

Glad I don’t have to trace that family!!!
Gdday,
Sarah
From: “Sarah Reveley” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:11:07 -0500
References: <[email protected]>
Well, the Most High and Majestic Google Empress (Mandy said it, not me) couldn’t let that one pass by.

Glad I don’t have to trace that family!!!
Gdday,
Sarah
>or is it something else entirely?<

Judy

From: “Roy Perkins” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:27:50 +0100
References: <[email protected]>
Hi All,

This a name which has long concerned me, though I have at the moment no
known family links.

There has been a tendency, paricularly in England, to follow the routes of
‘classical’ scholarship and seek Latin or Norman explanations for names and
words. We’ll probably never be certain but the derivation from ‘staff
bearer’ is the accepted wisdom. However, in the 15th Century the Crozier,
etc. Clan were concentrated at the head of the valley of the R. Liddell an
area which in earlier times was dominated by a Brythonic tribe called the
Selgovae. These people like most in this part of Scotland and Northern
England spoke a type of ‘Old Welsh’, probably not dissimilar from Cumbric. I
continue to wonder whether the origin of this name does not come from
Creoso, ‘Welcome’, in Welsh ? Certainly if they had sustained their
geographic position their position amongst the peaks of the the likes of
Caddroun Fell and Penygant Hill would make it appropriate for them to be
titled ‘the Welcomers’

Regards

Roy
—– Original Message —–
From: “J A Olsen” <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
> just curious and have no family members with this name but I have often
> wondered about its origins.
>
> Does it suggest that the family are descended from (celibate ha ha)
medieval
> clergy or is it something else entirely?
>
> Judy
>
>
> ==== CUMBERLAND Mailing List ====
> Have you considered joining the Cumbria Family History Society?
> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CUL/cumbFHS/
>
>

From: “Liz Telford” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:46:55 +0100
References: <[email protected]> <001901c1ebbd$de9900c0$ab31e150@grimmo>
Hello Roy/All

Been very quiet lately, however, had to “pop in” to say how interesting
Roy’s explanations are – wish I could come up with this kind of wisdom.

Thank you, Roy,

Liz
From: “Tom Rennebaum” <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:11:38 -0600
In-Reply-To: <009401c1ebd1$50e10160$9cb87ad5@p9i7g8>
Hi all,

Well, some of you folks never cease to amaze me, both with your wisdom and
with your wit!! Looks like there has been a little of both in the comments
concerning some of my ancestors.
I promise not to take it too personally 🙂 even though at times I’ve been
accused of “bearing a cross”.

By the way, I am relatively new to this particular list, to investigating
this part of the country, to the term “Border Reivers”, etc. Hadn’t gotten
around to the point where I wondered about the derivation of the surname. My
next step is to get a copy of “The Steel Bonnets” by Fraser to see what some
of you folks were up to in the past. Suspect that some of you still engage
in that kink of behavior! Just goes to prove that genealogy is much more
than just plugging names into a database, although at this point in time I
wouldn’t mind being able to do that, too.

Thanks, one and all for your input. Anybody out there actually know any
Crosiers/Croziers/Crozers?

Regards,
Tom Rennebaum
Boise, Idaho
From: “Roy Perkins” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:17:34 +0100
References: <[email protected]>
Hi Tom,

Not currently no, however in my youth in Liddesdale they were known by trade
as ‘cloggers’ and shoerepairers. Hope this helps.

Regards Roy
—– Original Message —–
From: “Tom Rennebaum” <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:11 PM
Subject: RE: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
> Hi all,
>
> Well, some of you folks never cease to amaze me, both with your wisdom and
> with your wit!! Looks like there has been a little of both in the comments
> concerning some of my ancestors.
> I promise not to take it too personally 🙂 even though at times I’ve been
> accused of “bearing a cross”.
>
> By the way, I am relatively new to this particular list, to investigating
> this part of the country, to the term “Border Reivers”, etc. Hadn’t gotten
> around to the point where I wondered about the derivation of the surname.
My
> next step is to get a copy of “The Steel Bonnets” by Fraser to see what
some
> of you folks were up to in the past. Suspect that some of you still engage
> in that kink of behavior! Just goes to prove that genealogy is much more
> than just plugging names into a database, although at this point in time I
> wouldn’t mind being able to do that, too.
>
> Thanks, one and all for your input. Anybody out there actually know any
> Crosiers/Croziers/Crozers?
>
> Regards,
> Tom Rennebaum
> Boise, Idaho
>

From: “Sarah Reveley” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:40:50 -0500
References: <[email protected]>
Maybe you could find one at:

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Clans/Crozier.html

In loving memory of Emma Crozier
of Montrose Way, Dunblane
Who died Wednesday, 13 March 1996
With fifteen of her classmates and her teacher
Class of Dunblane Primary, Dunblane, Scotland

The Croziers came over from Normandy in 1066 with William the Conqueror.
Through the years, some moved northward to the southern areas of Scotland
where they became established as a Border Clan.

Regards,
Tom Rennebaum

From: “Roy Perkins” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:02:17 +0100
References: <[email protected]> <025401c1ebd8$b58c0400$bc9c5a42@computer>
Hi Sarah,

This is a good example of what I was trying, in my halting way, to explain.
English history on the classical level is dominated by the Romans and the
Normans. One could be very tempted to believe that both groups moved into a
desolate wilderness inhabited by some sort of sub-human species. This was
definately not the case. What exactly is the evidence for the Crozier’s
coming with William the Conqueror?

Regards

Roy
—– Original Message —–
From: “Sarah Reveley” <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
> Maybe you could find one at:
>
> http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Clans/Crozier.html
>
> In loving memory of Emma Crozier
> of Montrose Way, Dunblane
> Who died Wednesday, 13 March 1996
> With fifteen of her classmates and her teacher
> Class of Dunblane Primary, Dunblane, Scotland
>
> The Croziers came over from Normandy in 1066 with William the Conqueror.
> Through the years, some moved northward to the southern areas of Scotland
> where they became established as a Border Clan.
>
> According to Scots Kith and Kin, Clan Crozier was in Liddesdale in the
14th
> Century.
> It is a sept of Clan Armstrong.
> Those with Nova Scotia Connections use the spelling “Crozier”.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Thanks, one and all for your input. Anybody out there actually know any
> Crosiers/Croziers/Crozers?
>
> Regards,
> Tom Rennebaum
>
>

From: “Sarah Reveley” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:23:31 -0500
References: <[email protected]> <025401c1ebd8$b58c0400$bc9c5a42@computer>
<000b01c1ebe4$15f78b60$a348e150@grimmo>
Hi Roy,

With all due respect, what exactly is the evidence for the origin of Crozier coming from Creoso, ‘Welcome’, in Welsh, when these dudes left poor old Parcy with
thirty three wonds and no hands and feet?

Sincerely,
Sarah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Sarah,

Regards

Roy

From: “Nick Stuart” <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:41:06 +0100
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1ebe4$15f78b60$a348e150@grimmo>
F.Y.I.

There are a few CROZIERS buried in Threlkeld churchyard. I think one of
them was Master of the Hunt of the Blencathra pack at Threlkeld.

Regards

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Roy Perkins [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 25 April 2002 00:02
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Hi Sarah,

Regards

But I did find something pretty cool, at one of my very favorite history websites, with music even, http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/Surnames%20of
%20North%20East%20England.htm

“Across the border lived the Armstrongs and in Liddesdale the Croziers who were at feud with the Redesdale family called Reed. Parcy Reed, the leader of the
Reeds was the Keeper of Redesdale and his appointment aroused the jealousy of the Halls who cunningly invited Parcy to join them on a hunt, knowing that a
Crozier raid was imminent. Parcy was invited to the home of the Halls where, unknown to him they jammed his sword in its scabbard and dampened the workings
of his gun. The next day Parcy and three Halls set off hunting and stumbled upon a raiding party of Croziers at the Carter Bar. As keeper of Redesdale, Parcy felt
he must stand up to the Scottish raiders but the Halls refused to assist. In the words of ‘The Ballad of Parcy Reed’ the Halls explained. ‘We mayna stand, we canna
stand, We dairna stand alang with thee. The Croziers had thee at a feud And they would kill baith thee and we’ . Riding forth alone to challenge the Crosiers Parcy
failed to release his sword an!
d his gun would not fire. The bloodthirsty ballad claims the Crosier’s left poor old Parcy with thirty three wonds and no hands and feet. For centuries the treachery
of the Halls was despised throughout the Border country.”

Quietly,
Sarah
From: “Roy Perkins” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] Surname Rennebaum
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:44:14 +0100
References: <[email protected]> <02e101c1ebed$8eb83d20$bc9c5a42@computer>
Hi Sarah,

The ‘Ha’s o’ Gironsfield’ is an interesting ballad, isn’t it. Even into the
19th century many of the Halls would not admit to their surname because of
the reputation they had as a result of this treachery.

The Croziers certainly had a reputation for fierceness and savagery, as did
the Selgovae, probably partly as a result of the terrain they inhabited;
they had to be hard men.

Regards

Roy
—– Original Message —–
From: “Sarah Reveley” <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 1:10 AM
Subject: [CUL] Surname Rennebaum
> Shhh…..don’t tell Roy Perkins, I’m in disguise. I snuck back in to
google for the “C” roster of 1066, and I couldn’t find the Croziers
anywhere, Tom!! See whut trubbl you got me into?
>
> But I did find something pretty cool, at one of my very favorite history
websites, with music even,
http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/Surnames%20of%20North%20East%20England.h
tm
>
> “Across the border lived the Armstrongs and in Liddesdale the Croziers who
were at feud with the Redesdale family called Reed. Parcy Reed, the leader
of the Reeds was the Keeper of Redesdale and his appointment aroused the
jealousy of the Halls who cunningly invited Parcy to join them on a hunt,
knowing that a Crozier raid was imminent. Parcy was invited to the home of
the Halls where, unknown to him they jammed his sword in its scabbard and
dampened the workings of his gun. The next day Parcy and three Halls set off
hunting and stumbled upon a raiding party of Croziers at the Carter Bar. As
keeper of Redesdale, Parcy felt he must stand up to the Scottish raiders but
the Halls refused to assist. In the words of ‘The Ballad of Parcy Reed’ the
Halls explained. ‘We mayna stand, we canna stand, We dairna stand alang with
thee. The Croziers had thee at a feud And they would kill baith thee and we’
. Riding forth alone to challenge the Crosiers Parcy failed to release his
sword an!
> d his gun would not fire. The bloodthirsty ballad claims the Crosier’s
left poor old Parcy with thirty three wonds and no hands and feet. For
centuries the treachery of the Halls was despised throughout the Border
country.”
>
> Quietly,
> Sarah
>
>

From: “Roy Perkins” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:26:49 +0100
References: <[email protected]> <001901c1ebbd$de9900c0$ab31e150@grimmo> <009401c1ebd1$50e10160$9cb87ad5@p9i7g8>
Hi Liz,

Thank-you for the generosity of your comments; however what I advanced is
not wisdom, not even knowledge, just an attempt to put forward an
alternative proposition to provoke people into thinking about ‘history’ in a
less one-dimensional way.

Nevertheless I thank you.

Regards

Roy
—– Original Message —–
From: “Liz Telford” <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
> Hello Roy/All
>
> Been very quiet lately, however, had to “pop in” to say how interesting
> Roy’s explanations are – wish I could come up with this kind of wisdom.
>
> Thank you, Roy,
>
> Liz
>
>

From: “J A Olsen” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:41:09 +0000
C’mon Sarah, dont tempt the the gods of genealogy or they’ll augur you a
REVELEY:CROZIER (etc) link before you can say bishops transcripts.

Judy
From: [email protected]
Subject: [CUL] re: Surname CROZER/CROSIER/CROZIER
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:52:34 EDT
FYI

There are 3 CROZIER mentioned in the principal inhabitants of Cumberland in
1847.

Crozier, Jos blacksmith = Town End Brampton
Crozier, Mary vict Jolly Butcher Front Street Brampton
Crozier, Robt farmer Aikhead Wigton

Regards
Kevin Robinson
Workington

Crosier-Crozier, and Elwood-Ellwod of Cumberland.

It is found that the Elwood-Ellwood are mainly in Cumberland, and share the same shield of the York Ellwood, and Gorrenberry Elwald-Ellot.

The words wold-would in Yorkshire meant moorland, but in Cumberland it was in English-English wood, so the names out of Yorkshire, Elwold, and Elwould evolved into the Cumberland Elwood then Ellwood.

Cumbria; Elwold,Elwould,Elwood,Ellwood,Ellot

Elwood Ellwood

Mark Elliott 2/27/2016

CUMBERLAND-L Archives

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ Apr 2002

Crosier-Crozier, and Elwood-Ellwod of Cumberland.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
Apr 2002